Comments for Unpacking Ideas» Unpacking Ideas: Grace, incarnation, redemption and transformational leadership

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by jharlow

jharlow — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:09:35 +0000

Also, I agree that you and I can disagree on complex topics like abortion and nuclear weapons. What confuses me is our willingness as Christians to disagree within ourselves and apply Christ’s love so selectively — to preserve life in one instance, and destroy life in another and say that is following the same Christ makes no sense to me. This is internally inconsistent.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by jharlow

jharlow — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:05:22 +0000

Good points, Charlie – thanks! I guess I was a bit unclear – not the first time. “Straddling the fence” for me means maintaining a difficult tension between compassion for unborn child and compassion for the pregnant woman making a painful decision. I acknowledge I am pointing to inconsistencies in the Church — and in me. An inconsistent application of Christ’s call to love everyone is not the same as focusing on an issue to avoid burnout. I cannot reconcile approving the protection of one child while ignoring (or approving) the destruction of another.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by jharlow

jharlow — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:00:05 +0000

Thanks Matthew!

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by Matthew

Matthew — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:48:33 +0000

Dr. Harlow

The characterization was my own.

I agree God longs for redemption. I also do not see how we can ignore the Law, when Christ himself did not ignore it.

Enjoy the thoughts you provoke, as always.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by Pastor Charlie

Pastor Charlie — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:12:15 +0000

How is it OK to “straddle the fence” & ask others “don’t rush to judgment,” while making judgmental statements about others’ seeming inconsistencies? Intelligent folk can honestly disagree on complex topics like abortion & nuclear weapons.

Also, it’s one thing to fault the church for inconsistent positions, given its comprehensive mission (under Holy Spirit) to maintain worship, edify believers & redeem the world. But it sounds like you’re focused on individual Christians (“students”) & sub-sections of the church (“pro-life movement”). Individuals & special-interest groups NEED to focus, least they burnout. Even Christ focused on just a few issues of His day (e.g., hypocrisy).

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by jharlow

jharlow — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:06:49 +0000

Hi Matthew — thanks for your opinion. My understanding of the Bible (through the lens of Christ) is that “pro-life” means all life is precious, including a murderer’s life. God’s desire for redemption extends very, very far! Also, I did not call you a “redneck, gun toting, blood thirsty people”. Sorry if you felt criticized in that way.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by Matthew

Matthew — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:24:57 +0000

One can be pro-life (the abortion definition) and support the death penalty, precisely out of the respect for life.

I do not really see a contradiction. In Exodus, God commands that murderers be executed. What God created, in His own image, to be destroyed with malice and forethought, that person has forfeited their right to life.

This does not make me or others, redneck, gun toting, blood thirsty people. It shows we have respect for life.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by jharlow

jharlow — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 01:15:01 +0000

Yes! Thank you for asking the basic, simple question. Of course we are ALL pro-life. So, rather than dividing the Church with hostile, dualistic language, let’s talk about (debate) what pro-life means and how to do it. Welcome to crazy.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by Beth Tucker

Beth Tucker — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 00:28:59 +0000

Isn’t everyone pro-life?? in a matter of speaking? I can’t imagine anyone being pro death– except in the areas of war, the death penalty etc.. Can one be pro-life yet still defend these other positions? maybe I am crazy too.

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by jharlow

jharlow — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 00:03:51 +0000

Thanks for reading! …maybe you are crazy..!

Comment on Where Did I Get These Crazy Ideas? The Sequel by Brenda Brooks

Brenda Brooks — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 23:53:26 +0000

Jeff,

What wonderful thoughts you have about being pro-life. When I went back to college after age 50, I was required to take a course on values. When I asked the same questions you are asking, the professor thought I was crazy.

Comment on Back To Basics by Dee Pendley

Dee Pendley — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 17:59:07 +0000

Right on! Keep meddlin!

Comment on The Heart Of The Matter: What Is The Root Of Our Anger? by jharlow

jharlow — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 18:54:10 +0000

Hi Arthur — thanks for your good response. For the record, I absolutely “fear” God in the sense of reverential respect and awe of God as the Holy Creator. My fear toward humans is another matter. As well, please accept my apology if I sound like I am “lumping” all responses into one category. This was not my intent. Instead, I am trying to understand what appears to me to be an inconsistent anger response by the Church. Our so-called righteous indignation/anger seems to be selective, and so I am suggesting one reason why this might be so. Fear. It appears we are afraid in one situation and not the other. This is not to suggest that everyone responding angrily does so out of fear. Again, the hard question for me is this: Why do some in the Church seem to respond with anger toward the new mosque and respond — one example — with silent complacency toward the thousands of children dying daily from hunger (or other equally horrific and unjust situations around us). This debate seems to be morphing into anger toward me for raising the hard question. Sorry. I have an annoying need to name the elephant in the sanctuary.

Comment on The Heart Of The Matter: What Is The Root Of Our Anger? by Arthur Devine

Arthur Devine — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:49:24 +0000

I would like to add my response to your debate about the Cultural Center + Mosque near Ground Zero:
You continue to define most, if not all of our expressions of opposition as ‘fear’.
I resent minimizing all expressions of opposition as ‘fear’.
To lump all voices of opposition together and label them as motivated by and spreading fear
has the appearance of invalidating the substance of the expression.

It is insulting and it deprives legitimate discourse (protected by our constitution) for you to prejudice your readers by describing most voices of opposition as “scary”, “frightened”,
“afraid”, “intellectually primitive”, etc.

My point is not just an argument about semantics, but about the substance and the essence of these valid voices of opposition being comprehensively considered in this discourse about the ramification of building this Cultural Center + Mosque two blocks from ground-zero.

A biblical lesson about hearing beyond semantics can be found in KJV’s use of the concept that says, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”; “The fear of the Lord is to hate evil” (Psalm 111:10, Proverbs 8:13).

Are you semantically dismissing the fact that there is beneficial positive value to making
decisions that take into consideration the possibility of negative consequences revealed by fear and being afraid?

Comment on The Heart Of The Matter: What Is The Root Of Our Anger? by jharlow

jharlow — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:45:19 +0000

Thank you for your very passionate response. While I disagree with most of what you have said, I would like to respond to two comments. “America” did not — and can not — “take God out of school”. The God I worship and try to follow is too big and too powerful to be taken anywhere.

As we have cautioned about our tendency to view other groups as a single, homogenous entity, I caution against lumping “Americans” or “America” into one category or type as well. We are a richly diverse people with richly diverse opinions and behaviors. We can agree, perhaps, that Scott spoke for you.

Comment on The Heart Of The Matter: What Is The Root Of Our Anger? by tells it like I see it

tells it like I see it — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 06:26:03 +0000

As a fellow American, I find myself agreeing mostly with the very well spoken and dead on Scott Herndon. No, I do not know him, however I feel he speaks for most Americans. The one area I disagree with is the immigration area. While I do believe that people from other countries should only enter legally, it is the unfortunate truth that if it werent for most of the illegal Hispanics (lets be honest here, we all know that is whom to which we are referring) working in the fields our prices would soar. We can say that there are high cost with immigrants and they very well may be, however, you will be hard pressed to find any american that will work 14 hrs per day in a field for what we Americans pay the Mexicans. You can dance around it all you want, Jesus or no Jesus everyone of you know its true. If we send every illegal back and put Americans in our fields, our prices will soar, and we probably wont eat much because the hard honest truth is that the majority of Americans are lazy. I am not trying to be rude, I am just stating the obvious. This is also a direct result of our governments inablity to sometimes use common sense. Perhaps if welfare, in all forms, were not so readily available, we wouldnt be in this situation. Perhaps if the woman who has multiple children so her monthly government check wil increase would be forced to work and given so much “tolerance” in the form of government money, she would stop conceiving every 11 months. Perhaps if the ignorant man, who can only think as far as getting in these womens pants so to speak, would go to work and be forced to be the provider he should be, he would be more careful the next time he unzips his pants. I may not sound as eloquent as some of the others, but sometimes common sense and to the point talk is better than eloquence.
America chose to take God out of school, America chooses to not discipline their children, for fear of psychologically damaging them, America preaches tolerance, America says “dont be too harsh”, we need to forgive. Well Jesus spoke of tolerance and he spoke of forgiveness, but he also spoke of a hell and he didnt sugarcoat it! While we are so busy teaching forgivness and assuring everyone that they are going to be fine, we are forgetting to also teach them that there is a hell and it aint pretty. Just ask the rich man, you know the one in the Bible. America has made this bed and now America is lying in it. I am not against tolerance or forgiveness and I am not against hell, fire and brimstone, but I think its time people started to use some common sense.
we have illegals working here for way less than our minimum wage, and guess what, they are here to stay, because, sadly America is to “tolerant”

Comment on What Are We Afraid Of? Build The Mosque by jharlow

jharlow — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 01:08:04 +0000

Hi Matthew. Thanks for your careful response and your good questions. I do not have enough information to respond to your concern with any credibility. I fully expect, though, that if our current administration is using him as an emissary, his background has been checked rather thoroughly. I can only speculate. Perhaps there is a strategic reason for his public comments. Again, I can only speculate.

Comment on What Are We Afraid Of? Build The Mosque by Matthew

Matthew — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:58:50 +0000

I feel a huge issue with the Mosque/Center that few have mentioned is something Rev. Stribula touched on in your most recent post.

I do not feel comfortable with Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf.

Now the American Government has known him for some time and he has rubbed elbows with people from this and our last administration.

But when asked directly if Hamas was a terrorist organization, he would not answer. He says America’s policies were an accessory to 9/11 and “In the most direct sense, Usama Bin Laden is made in the U.S.A.”

Now I feel that if the United States (the American taxpayer) is now using this man to travel to the Middle East and reach out to “Muslim Majority” communities, then maybe they should have taken these statements into account.

Any person who has heard these things should not be criticized for being wary of something associated with this man.

Comment on What Are We Afraid Of? Build The Mosque by Gregg Janes

Gregg Janes — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:45:08 +0000

Jeff,
Thanks for your response. Speaking of “tinkering with our Constitution”, isn’t one of the tenants of Spiritual Progressives to apply Social Justice which ascribes to the notion of income and property redistribution. Is that not considered “tinkering with the Constitution”? You might also want to check the link you included for the network of Spiritual Progressives which has a rather interesting political cartoon lampooning our Supreme Court Justices and calling for progressives to “take action” and join a campaign to amend the US Constitution.

Comment on The Heart Of The Matter: What Is The Root Of Our Anger? by jharlow

jharlow — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:12:10 +0000

Excellent Charles. Now you are on to something interesting. When it comes to how or when we should react to the world around us, with anger (indignation) or welcoming love, let’s follow Jesus’ example…all the time.